So Barbie has just left my place and biked home. We’ve actually spent a large part of the day together. Went for a long run together (it’s been beautiful here today). Then she came over for dinner and the plan was to go to the cinema. However, fate as well as she, it seems, would have other plans.
Imagine this. You’ve just finished a very nice dinner together with someone you like. Conversation’s gone really well and you’ve connected a little bit more than before, you’re actually getting to know each other. You get ready to leave for the cinema, she goes to the bathroom for a moment and you put on your coat. When she comes out she says, just like that almost matter-of-factly, “What do you want with this thing, is it just for fun for you or are you serious about it?” This was an ambush that Vietcong would’ve been proud of. Look up ‘stunned’ on Wikipedia and you’ll see my picture. She added, so as to complete the blackmail situation she had so cunningly engineered, that she asked because “she does not want to get hurt” and that if I’m only interested in something short-term then we’d better stop it. I had the feeling she suppressed the words “right now”. Then again, this was not said in any agitated state but it was all very civilised.
I said in a deliberately only moderately convincing manner that no, I’m not interested in something short-term or just “for fun” (aka f*ck buddy – at least that’s how I interpreted her). I said that if her question was spawned by my having told her last Saturday that yes, I’m ready to date, but that my hesitation – which I believe is a legitimate hesitation – is due simply to the fact that the recent news that la parisienne returns in a week’s time (rather than in August) to work in my unit has, well, disturbed my circles. I said that no, I do not harbour any feelings of hope or desire to get back with la parisienne, but again I am affected by the news of her imminent return. Then we hugged and kissed and decided not to go to the cinema but to watch The Matrix at my place, a film she hadn’t seen. Lots of snogging, which by now is getting tedious, but again nothing further on the physical front.
Yes, dear readers, I’m confused and befuddled, my brain is addled, my noodle is baked. W-T-F. I do not – repeat – do not consider ambush tactics to be anything but childish game-play, which does not belong among adults. Yes, we needed a talk but no, we didn’t need it after having spent hours upon hours of great time together today and just as we are about to go out. And the question she asked is wrong; it is not whether I want something short-term or not, but whether there is any emotional basis between the two of us for trying anything at all, short-term or long-term. I mean, it’s not like we can move forward any slower, is it? For F’s sake, it’s like running a car on brake fluid!
And no – just for the record – I do not appreciate being served with an “I don’t want to get hurt” as a reason, even when the question is as stupid as the one she asked. This is how it is, babe: it’s life and this is how relationships start. You’re not likely to get killed, but you run the risk of having your heart broken. So in order to play you’re required to insert into the slot machine at least parts of your heart before pulling the handle. Who knows, maybe you’ll get lucky and win, maybe even the biggest fattest hugest prize of them all with a life-long payment scheme. But, as we all know, odds are against you statistically speaking. Then again, if you still wanna play then you gotta pay. And no, there’s no insurance policy you can take so if you lose, you stand there, broke and broken. So don’t give me any of that “I don’t want to get hurt” crap. Deal with it and take it, should it come, as an adult woman. Eat chocolate, ice cream, whinge to your friends, go out and date like crazy and jump every even remotely male-looking man, start a new hobby, exercise, whatever the hell women do to get over male bastards who’ve dumped them. But do not ambush me and imply that I’m to blame for failing to prove to you that I’m keen on a real relationship when in actual fact it is you, my dear, who’s the obstacle to this going anywhere. I mean, for God’s sake, how, if not by touching and kissing you and showing affection, am I supposed to prove my interest?
Man, I’m upset. And quite honestly, I’m losing interest, though I have not yet shown it. I do believe that by now we’ve gone way past what is normal regarding physical progress when dating someone. It’s not fun any longer and I’m not even looking forward to it, should it ever happen. There is such a thing as pleasures of anticipation, but this is going too far. She’s a grown-up woman and should be able to handle these things. It’s not like when you were a virgin and it was the most precious gift you felt you could ever give to someone. Besides, she’s been in five long-term relationships, ranging from 9 months to 4 years. So it’s not like this is a new situation for her.
At the very least the situation which she created tonight provides us with a basis from which to hold further discussions on this matter. As they would diplomatically say in politics when the opposite side has come up with an utterly ridiculous proposal.
18 comments
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March 12, 2007 at 6:00 am
Loverville
She definitely seems cautious… to say the least. How long have you been dating? I’m VERY impressed (and surprised!) that you were able to spend the night together without sleeping together. Can you talk to her about sex? (or in your case, lack thereof)
Good luck! BTW, great blog. I always enjoy hearing a guy’s perspective on this crazy thing we call dating.
March 12, 2007 at 10:57 am
standontheright
Ouch.
I think you would be wise to walk away from this. There is clear disdain in your post tone and you don’t think very much of her reasons for wishing to go slow which shows you don’t respect her. Women can pick up on this and that may have made her even more apprehensive about going further with you. There is no such thing as a “normal” length of time to wait before progressing a relationship onto a more physical level regardless of whether she is an adult woman or not. I suppose she ruined your day together by asking that question, but I suspect that it has been on her mind a while, and she has struggled to keep it in. And actually, sex is a big deal to some women.
Sometimes I am amazed at just how differently male and female brains work, but like Loverville above, I find reading a guy’s perspective interesting, if a little disheartening sometimes.
March 12, 2007 at 11:17 am
pinkjellybaby
i must say, i kinda totally sympathise with Barbie here. Granted, i don’t know her, but i don’t know you either…..
She’s been hurt in the past, that much is clear. Perhaps she has jumped into physical relationships and then found herself out in the cold once the guy has got what he wanted.
I think this is supported by the way she is checking with you ‘if this is something long term’.
She’s holding out on you to make sure that you are genuine….for a lot of women, that next step means a whole lot more emotional commitement than it does to men.
Talk to her about it, ask her about the physical connection.
If you’re not prepared to wait until she is ready, then you’re not prepared for an honest relationship with her and you’re just going to end up hurting her…and that’s what she’s so scared of. Quite rightly it seems as well…..
In all honesty, if i was her, i’d be holding off as well
March 12, 2007 at 1:47 pm
adventure boy
I knew I would get lots of flak for this post, but decided nonetheless to post it because I believe in honesty.
I know that women typically invest more emotional commitment in sex than men typically do. Especially women who are around/in their 30s. Not only do I respect that, but I also understand it.
PJB, I apologise but here I take issue with your assumption that I would not be ready for an honest relationship because I find her physically attractive and that I would leave as soon as I’ve got what men typically want. Like I’ve said before, to me sex is something you do with someone you like. It may be that I’ve failed to show her that I’m genuinely interested in her. But then I’m lost completely – again, how if not by spending LOTS of time with her, talking with her, getting to know her, touching her, kissing her etc am I to show her that I want her? And why does she assume that me doing all these things means that I’m only after the sex? This is a clear Catch 22 and I’m screwed whatever I do.
She may have been hurt in the past. Who hasn’t? But SOTR you read my post completely wrongly if you saw disdain in it. Yes, I am unhappy that she’s not seeing what I want. And yes I was upset that she ambushed me. And yes I didn’t like that she couldn’t communicate better with me. But no, she did not ruin my day at all. We had a great day and evening, even after we talked. Maybe I was unclear in my post – it seems I’m generally crap at describing to women what I mean or want. So I disagree that I should walk away. However, I do agree she and I need to talk and that I need to explain something to her. But more about that in a later post.
March 12, 2007 at 1:58 pm
standontheright
“But then I’m lost completely – again, how if not by spending LOTS of time with her, talking with her, getting to know her, touching her, kissing her etc am I to show her that I want her? And why does she assume that me doing all these things means that I’m only after the sex?”
I think you need to ask yourself if you are prepared for a lot of kissing and attention giving – it seems clear to me that she is one of the women in this world who want a lot of this kind of romantic attention and that will not change over time.
Sadly, you have to take on that a large proportion of men do only want sex and ok that isn’t fair that you get tainted with the same brush but look at it from the perspective you seem to take with a lot of things: that’s life, deal with it.
Unfortunately, and maybe this comes down to your comment “it seems I’m generally crap at describing to women what I mean or want” but you do come across as being very focused on sleeping with this woman, and whether you intend to stay with her longer term or not (as it seems she is hoping) she WILL be aware of your urges (probably from physical signs!) and as you said, she is a grown woman so of course she is aware of you wanting to move things on. But I wouldn’t be surprised if that alone has put her off somewhat.
I also don’t think she used ambush tactics on you or emotional blackmail…
March 12, 2007 at 1:58 pm
pinkjellybaby
sorry, you said that you were getting bored of it all now… to me, that meant that you are bored of waiting for her to be ready, which is where i got that from.
it seems like (from how she is acting and the ‘ambush) that she’s not quite sure, despite your reassurances, what you are after.
If you ARE into her, and into a relationship with her, then the key is communication… if you can’t talk now about your issues, then you won’t be able to talk about other issues that might come up once you get into a relationship.
Perhaps she is just someone who needs to be reassured in a relationship….if she’s a hot as you make her sound, then i’m sure she’s used to guys trying to get their end away (and i’m not saying you are here)
as a girl/woman…. i have been around 8 dates with a guy (cinema, dinner etc.) thought it was getting there, got a bit physical, only for him to turn around and say ‘oh sorry, i don’t want a gf’…and that’s happened more than once….
she’s being cautious as it’s her right to be
March 12, 2007 at 2:56 pm
adventure boy
SOTR, with respect, you need to read my posts more attentively. I am not focused on only sleeping with Barbie. The first time I brought up the sex issue here, I made it very clear that it isn’t only sex, it’s her not initiating contact, which makes me doubt her interest in me.
Reading your comments, the appropriate way to behave, so as to allay any fears she might have that I’m only after sex, is to just talk, and not touch. Perhaps it’s the right medicine, I’ll try.
And for the record, SOTR, I don’t have a problem with the impression women generally have of men that they predominantly want sex before a relationship. I accept that, and I even understand it. Just as I accept and understand the woman’s side of this. So yes, I deal with that and the uphill battle it creates.
PJB, you misread my post. When I say I’m feeling bored of it, I meant that I’m wondering why I should invest myself emotionally in her when I don’t perceive that I get a response. Like I said, it’s about reciprocity.
I really think you two are judging me too harshly here.
March 12, 2007 at 3:02 pm
pinkjellybaby
perhaps look at it this way:
she’s been hurt before… she likes you but she’s scared that if she responds, then things will get carried away and go further than she’s comfortable with
it might be that not reciprocating at all is her way of trying to make sure that you don’t both get ‘carried away’?
like i said, talk to her about it. But don’t forget to reassure her that you are after something more long term, but you want to make sure that she’s ‘feeling it’ in the same way that you are
March 12, 2007 at 3:16 pm
adventure boy
Thanks for that constructive remark.
March 12, 2007 at 3:32 pm
pinkjellybaby
you have to remember that us girls are complicated… we think we’re being clear in how we’re acting, but to a guy we probably aren’t and then in our head we’re thinking ‘why doesn’t he get it!?’
March 12, 2007 at 3:47 pm
standontheright
Well AB, with that I think I will leave you to it rather than risk you biting my head off again just for replying to a post in which you appear baffled by a woman’s reactions. There are plenty of other women out here who can guide you.
And I did pay attention when I read your posts. There is no need to get so defensive because someone said something you disagreed with.
Good luck with it all.
March 12, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Random Reflections
Interestingly I read what you wrote the same way as the other commenters here (I note you have only had comments from females so it would be interesting to see what a bloke made of it). I think maybe that is quite telling though. You may be thinking you’re communicating here exactly what you are meaning to say but women can see/ read exactly the same thing and yet pick up something totally different. I just wonder if that perhaps illustrates what is going on with you and Barbie as well? Not because of you in particular just because of the male/ female divide on such things.
In defence of SOTR, I did think it sounded remarkably like disdain that you were expressing too. But sometimes things sound different when you are reading them as it misses out other ways that we communicate.
March 12, 2007 at 10:49 pm
LondonGirl
I can see both points of view here. It’s disconcerting if the other person (be that male or female) doesn’t seem to show interest in you on a physical level (what’s wrong with me, aren’t they interested etc?) but I think she has shown interest in taking things further – she invited you to stay over, no?
I think we all need reassurance and women specifically, that men are not just after the sex. I stayed over at RT’s on Friday night, have heard nothing since and feel like he thinks I’m a slapper, despite the fact that not much happened. What else am I supposed to think, as he’s not talking?
I think Barbie is interested. But I get the impression that you two just aren’t communicating right at the moment. Or just aren’t understanding where the other one is coming from. Have you told her that you get the impression she doesn’t fancy you because she never makes a move? You might be surprised by her response.
As for the ambush point, I blurt out stuff like that too – it’s been building up all day, never finding the right moment and then you just blurt it out. You want to know what they think, you can’t hold it in your head any more and you want reassurance. I’m insecure and I can really relate to Barbie’s stance here.
I know that risk is inherent in relationships and you have to go with that sometimes, but it’s about risk management, no? And a bit of hand-holding, metaphorically or physically shouldn’t be a bad thing.
March 13, 2007 at 5:49 am
joiedevivre5
I have to say that I usually end up doing the ambush tactic by mistake. I’m very passionate and very poor at hiding my feelings and thoughts so when I’m thinking of something that’s driving me crazy, I just get it out.
To some that’s refreshing, to others, frightening. I’m okay with that.
However (I haven’t read all of the responses to this yet as I don’t have much time to respond myself so I hope I’m not repeating anyone), I wonder if SHE may be wondering why things haven’t gone in a sexual direction? Yes it’s nice to just enjoy the moment, but after you say something like, “let’s take it slow” it’s always frightening to me to wonder at which point, exactly do I speed it up again? And am I unattractive because he doesn’t want to speed it up? Is he relieved we’re taking it slow because he’s not attracted to me in that way? (Enter girl-kind second guessing and overanalyzing)
Maybe she blurted that out because things seem to be casual and she wonders if they will STAY casual or move into a more intimate (physically and emotionally) relationship? Or maybe she’s been fucked over in the past and she’s worried that if she gives you her heart you may crush it if you’re only interested in something casual and she is interested in a relationship?
That isn’t to say that relationships aren’t hard. And that people don’t get hurt. They do, and not always on purpose. But I know that I, as a strong and independent woman, have been with a man or two who hurt me. And the way that made me feel so helpless and irritated with myself for letting it happen (not to mention so hurt because of their insensitivity) made me want to make damn sure it never happened again.
I don’t know how Barbie is, but I know for me, if I were in this situation, instead of someone just thinking that I was scared to be in relationships, I’d want them to see that I know I’m a great catch. I am interested in them, but not as anything casual. If all they want is something casual then we should part ways because that’s just not quite enough for me. It would all be very matter of fact for me. Not saying that it would be the same with her.
Best of luck
March 13, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Venting
Well, I don’t really think she ambushed you. I tend to think about things all day and then the right time to bring it up never happens and then it just comes out. I would let that go – it’s not emotional sabotage!
Also, it’s time to bring up the sex thing. I mean, it’s obviously on your mind and personally I find it weird that you two haven’t had sex yet.
March 15, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Sarah
You believe in honesty? That’s what she was doing. Being honest. Opening up.
I think you are way too harsh on her. She wanted to know where you guys stood and I think that is a perfectly valid and healthy question. Someone just commented on my blog yesterday that the relationship talk isn’t easy or fun, but rather a necessary talk. That’s what she was trying to do.
March 19, 2007 at 1:05 am
copasetic fish
i’ll rather shamefacedly admit that i’ve done my fair share of ambushing, but usually because it takes me so long to figure out what i want to say that once it’s ready to be said, i just blurt it out.
and god help us all when we’re trying to get the sex time table down. best of luck with all that. and if you figure it out, give me a shout and let me know how to reasonably time it. i’ve certainly fucked it up royally myself.
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